The 45-70 Government was born in 1873 to arm the US Army’s Springfield trapdoor rifles. The 8.6 Blackout showed up roughly 150 years later, engineered from scratch for suppressed bolt-action and AR-10 platforms. On paper, these two cartridges have almost nothing in common – different case geometry, different bullet diameters, different design eras. Yet in 2025, a surprising number of hunters find themselves weighing one against the other for the same job: putting down deer, hogs, or black bear inside 200 yards.
This comparison exists because the hunting overlap is real. Both are large-bore cartridges built for authority at close to moderate range. Both have passionate handloading communities. Both reward the shooter who understands what they are holding. The difference is in the philosophy behind each design – and understanding that philosophy is how you pick the right one for your specific situation.
8.6 Blackout Origins and Design Goals
The 8.6 Blackout (8.6 BLK) was developed by Q LLC and introduced publicly around 2022. Its design brief was specific: create a large-bore cartridge that fits the AR-10/SR-25 magazine, fires .338″-diameter bullets, and delivers genuinely effective subsonic loads through a suppressor while also offering supersonic hunting capability. The case is formed from 308 Winchester brass – one of the most available parent cases in the reloading world – and uses standard large rifle primers. SAAMI specifications have been published, and commercial ammunition is available from several manufacturers.
Platforms chambered in 8.6 BLK include Q’s own Fix bolt-action, the Ruger American Gen II, and various AR-10 pattern uppers from aftermarket builders. The cartridge generated significant industry attention on introduction because it solved a problem no existing cartridge addressed cleanly: a magazine-compatible, suppressor-optimized round with enough bullet weight and diameter to be a serious hunting cartridge, not just a range novelty. By 2025, it has moved past the early-adopter phase and into genuine field use among hunters and hog control shooters across the South and Midwest.
Subsonic Hunting – Where 45-70 Has No Answer
This is the clearest capability gap between the two cartridges, and it is not close. The 8.6 BLK’s primary design feature is its subsonic load – typically 300 to 350 grain .338″ bullets at 1,050 fps or below. Paired with an appropriate large-format suppressor, this combination is hearing-safe without electronic muffs. For hunters doing nighttime hog control or managing deer on properties near residential areas, that matters enormously. The sound signature is closer to a heavy air rifle than a centerfire cartridge.
The 45-70 Government has no practical subsonic equivalent. Its case volume and pressure curve simply do not produce useful subsonic loads that cycle reliably or expand on target. You can load a 45-70 down to very mild velocities for Cowboy Action shooting, but those loads are not designed for terminal performance on game. If suppressed hunting is your primary use case – and in states like Texas, where suppressed hog hunting is both legal and increasingly common – the 8.6 BLK occupies territory the 45-70 cannot reach.
Supersonic Ballistics at 100 to 200 Yards
This is where the comparison gets genuinely interesting, because the gap narrows. The 8.6 BLK’s supersonic loads push 200 to 250 grain bullets at 2,200 to 2,500 fps. The 45-70, loaded to modern pressures in a strong action like a Ruger No. 1 or TC Encore, drives a 300 grain bullet at roughly 2,100 fps. In a lever-action like the Marlin 1895, that same bullet typically runs closer to 1,800 fps due to lower pressure limits.
| Metric | 8.6 BLK (225gr, 2,400 fps) | 45-70 Lever (300gr, 1,800 fps) | 45-70 Strong Action (300gr, 2,100 fps) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Energy at muzzle | ~2,880 ft-lbs | ~2,160 ft-lbs | ~2,940 ft-lbs |
| Energy at 150 yds | ~1,950 ft-lbs | ~1,350 ft-lbs | ~1,900 ft-lbs |
| Drop at 200 yds | ~7″ | ~18″ | ~13″ |
The 8.6 BLK’s flatter trajectory is obvious. It maintains velocity and energy better at distance because its bullets have superior ballistic coefficients. The 45-70 compensates with sheer bullet diameter – .458″ versus .338″ – and devastating wound channels at close range. Inside 100 yards, the 45-70 in a strong action hits like a freight train. Past 150 yards, the 8.6 BLK pulls ahead in every measurable ballistic category.
Platform Matchup – Lever Gun vs AR-10
The rifles that chamber these cartridges are as different as the cartridges themselves. The 45-70 lives in lever-action rifles like the Marlin 1895 and Henry Steel, or single-shot platforms like the TC Encore and Ruger No. 1. These are compact, handy guns – the Marlin 1895 SBL with an 18.5″ barrel is one of the best timber rifles ever made. They carry well in thick brush, mount fast to the shoulder, and have the kind of balance that makes snap shots at moving game feel natural.
The 8.6 BLK’s native platforms are bolt-action rifles and AR-10 semi-autos. The AR-10 in particular offers higher magazine capacity (typically 10 rounds versus 4-6 in a lever gun), faster follow-up shots, and straightforward suppressor mounting via a threaded barrel. It also accepts modern optics without modification. The trade-off is weight – an AR-10 with a large-format suppressor can easily weigh 10 to 12 pounds. That is a meaningful difference when you are walking to a stand in the dark or still-hunting ridges on foot. If you already own an AR-10 lower, an 8.6 BLK upper conversion is a relatively simple path into the cartridge.
Reloading Considerations
Both cartridges reward handloaders, but the learning curves differ. The 45-70 has 150 years of published load data, an enormous selection of .458″ bullets from 250 to 500 grains, and well-understood pressure behavior. The critical detail is knowing your rifle’s pressure tier – trapdoor loads, lever-action loads, and strong-action loads are not interchangeable, and mixing them up is genuinely dangerous.
The 8.6 BLK uses readily available 308 Winchester brass as its parent case, which keeps component costs manageable. However, published load data is still limited compared to established cartridges. Bullet selection in .338″ diameter is excellent thanks to the 338 Lapua and 338 Federal families, but specific 8.6 BLK load recipes require careful attention to case capacity and overall length constraints for AR-10 magazine compatibility. If you are shopping for a reloading manual, make sure it includes 8.6 BLK data specifically – do not extrapolate from other 338-caliber cartridges.
Common Mistakes Picking Between These Two
Shooters making this decision often trip over the same avoidable errors. Here are the ones that come up most often:
- Assuming the 45-70 can be suppressed effectively. You can thread a barrel and mount a can, but the 45-70’s supersonic crack and large case volume mean it will never be hearing-safe. The 8.6 BLK was designed for this from day one.
- Overestimating the 8.6 BLK’s range advantage. Flatter trajectory does not make it a 500-yard cartridge. Both of these are realistically 200-yard hunting rounds for most shooters, with the 8.6 BLK stretching to 300 in skilled hands.
- Ignoring platform weight with a suppressor. An AR-10 in 8.6 BLK with a suppressor is a heavy system. If you hunt from a fixed blind, that is fine. If you walk miles, factor it in honestly.
- Loading 45-70 strong-action data in a lever gun. This is a safety issue, not a preference issue. Lever-action 45-70 rifles have lower pressure limits than single-shot or bolt-action platforms. Always verify your load data matches your specific rifle type.
- Buying 8.6 BLK without checking ammunition availability locally. Commercial ammo exists but is not yet stocked at every rural sporting goods store. Plan for mail-order or handloading if you live outside a major metro area.
- Dismissing the 45-70 as obsolete. A 400 grain hard-cast bullet at 1,800 fps from a lever gun is still one of the most effective close-range hunting loads in North America. Age does not equal irrelevance.
Quick Checklist – Which Cartridge Fits Your Situation
- Do you need suppressed, hearing-safe hunting? 8.6 BLK
- Do you want a lever-action platform? 45-70
- Is subsonic terminal performance important? 8.6 BLK
- Are you hunting dangerous game at close range? 45-70 in a strong action
- Do you already own an AR-10 lower? 8.6 BLK upper conversion
- Do you want the broadest possible handloading data? 45-70
- Is nighttime hog control a primary use? 8.6 BLK
- Do you value light carry weight and fast handling? 45-70 lever gun
Quick Takeaways
- The 8.6 BLK is the only realistic choice if suppressed subsonic hunting is your goal – the 45-70 cannot compete in that space.
- Inside 100 yards on deer and hogs, both cartridges kill cleanly and decisively. The differences are in platform and sound signature, not terminal effect.
- The 45-70 remains unmatched for close-range authority on large, tough animals when loaded to strong-action pressures.
- Handloading is practically required for the 8.6 BLK if you want to explore its full potential. The 45-70 has a century and a half head start in published data.
- These are not competing cartridges so much as different tools. Your platform preference and suppressor needs should drive the decision more than ballistic tables.
FAQ – 45-70 vs 8.6 Blackout Compared
Can I use 45-70 with a suppressor for hunting?
Technically yes – you can thread a barrel and mount a large-format suppressor on a single-shot 45-70. However, the supersonic report will still be loud, and the system will not be hearing-safe. The 8.6 BLK’s subsonic loads are specifically designed for this purpose and deliver a dramatically quieter shooting experience.
Is 8.6 Blackout good for deer hunting?
Yes. Both supersonic and subsonic 8.6 BLK loads are effective on whitetail deer at appropriate distances. Supersonic loads with expanding bullets perform well to 200 yards and beyond. Subsonic loads are best kept inside 100 yards with bullets designed to expand at low velocity. Always verify your state’s regulations regarding caliber and bullet diameter minimums.
Which cartridge is cheaper to reload?
The 45-70 generally wins on component cost and availability. Brass is inexpensive, bullet selection is enormous, and powder charges use common propellants. The 8.6 BLK uses affordable parent brass (308 Win), but specialized bullets and limited published data add friction to the reloading process. Both are significantly cheaper to reload than to buy factory ammunition.
Can I convert my existing AR-10 to 8.6 Blackout?
In most cases, yes. The 8.6 BLK uses the same bolt face and magazine as the 308 Winchester, so a barrel swap and potentially a new gas system are the primary changes needed for an AR-10 build. If you are shopping for an upper, look for one specifically built and headspaced for 8.6 BLK – do not assume a generic 308 upper will work with just a barrel change.
Is 45-70 still relevant in 2025?
Absolutely. The 45-70 fills a niche that no modern cartridge has replaced: maximum-diameter, heavy-bullet performance from compact lever-action and single-shot platforms. For timber hunting, brush hunting, and close-range encounters with large game, it remains one of the most effective cartridges available. Its relevance is not about competing with modern designs – it is about doing its specific job exceptionally well.
Which is better for feral hog control?
For organized nighttime hog control with thermal optics and a suppressor, the 8.6 BLK is the superior tool. Its subsonic loads allow rapid follow-up shots without spooking the rest of the sounder, and the AR-10 platform provides magazine capacity for multiple targets. For daytime hog hunting where suppression is not critical, the 45-70 lever gun is fast, reliable, and devastating at the ranges where most hog encounters happen.
